News and Notes from
Around the League
July 31st - Asher - A First Time for Everything
The gang at Baseball Evolution has never shied from disagreeing with mainstream media (ESPN) about their assertions with regard to baseball, baseball history, and baseball evolution. Thus, when Asher heard that David Schoenfield has written a column on 40 current players bound for the Hall of Fame, he was incredulous. Actually, he began salivating, as he figured he had a great piece of meat for the "Bonehead Sportwriter of the Week" feature. But what he found surprised him, and it may surprise you, too.
Keith is a little less forgiving, and proceeds to nitpick at David and Asher's analyses.
July 31 - Asher -
Signs that things aren't going the Cubs way . . . During this afternoon's Cubs game, the telecast cut to a graphic of what was going on "down on the farm." They talked about Corey Patterson's progress, Nomar Garciaparra's rehab progress, and mentioned that Kerry Wood would be making a rehab start soon. They also mentioned some other dude.
He's That Good - Mariano Rivera is having an unbelievable season; particularly when you consider what he's done since his opening series against Boston: 3-1, 26 SV, 0 BS, 40.2 IP, 17 H, 0 HR, 2 ER, 46 K, 8 BB, 0.44 ERA, and a 0.61 WHIP!
Over on The Sports Farm, Scott and Keith got into a debate about relievers and the Hall of Fame.
It's That Bad - The Yankees' starting rotation is in such disarray, that they claimed Hideo Nomo off waivers from the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. That's right, the Yanks are sifting through the Rays' trash bins and liking what they see. Not good enough for Tampa Bay, plenty fine for New York. Wow.
They're So Ugly -
Bernie Williams: .240/.331/.353---> 0 RBIs in his last 32 AB
Tony Womack: .241/.274/.264---> .184/.195/.184 in his last 76 AB
Tino Martinez: .221/.313/.460---> .166/.235/.308 in his last 78 AB
See whether Bernie, Tony, or Tino made Asher's Flat on Their Face Team.
Keith counters Asher's team with his We Don't Need No Stinkin' Seroids Team.
David Ortiz continues to torment the Twins! Not only has he been one of the best run producers in the AL since the Twins allowed him to leave, but he has a 1.207 OPS and 11 RBIs against them in just 32 at bats. Worse still, he hit a fly ball on Friday that caused Torii Hunter to injure himself in an attempt to corral it. Hunter is expected to miss six weeks.
July 27 - Asher - In just his 97th game of the year, rookie Willy Tavares tied Craig Biggio's team record with his 50th infield single.
July 23 - Asher
A little Did You Know prior to 1997, there were only two players in the history of Major League Baseball with the last name Cabrera Francisco Cabrera and Al Cabrera, who played one game in 1913. But coming into this year, there have been seven additional Cabreras, with the Yankees Melky making eight.
July 21 - Asher -
Gary Sheffield, in responding to a question about whether we would participate in the new Baseball world cup thing, had this to say: I'm not paid to play those games, Sheffield told a small crowd of five or six reporters in Detroit. You've got to pay for everything you get from me. Period. I'm not going to go out there and risk injury.
Although the injuries concerns are somewhat legit, I think Gary demonstrated why he has never been a national hero, and why baseball will benefit when his career comes to a close.
July 20, 2005
Pittsburgh's catcher Ryan Doumit, in his first season in the Majors, hit his first career home run against the Astros yesterday, and then for good measure hit his second career home run later in the game. Doumit came in with a .179/.253/.269, for and OPSA (on base plus slugging plus average) of 701.
After yesterday's action, there are 18 out of 30 teams playing .500 ball or better, and three more teams (Detroit, Milwaukee, Toronto) within two games of .500, which means somebody (I'm not naming names) is losing more than their fair share of ball games.
. . . And oh by the way
Jason Johnson has been out done at last
Mark Hendricksen, starting for the D-Rays, gave up 6 runs without recording an out before being removed.
His ERA jumped from 6.35 to 6.91.
July 18, 2005 Asher
According to my computer, Todd Hollandsworth is currently pitching for the Cubs. Is this possible? They are only up 9-4. But he just got Wily Mo Pena for the first out.
One day after the otherwise struggling Al Leiter handled the Red Sox, Kevin Brown got handled by the Texas Rangers tonight 6 earned runs in 4.1 innings.
Todd Hollandsworth just got the second out of the ninth inning.
Tonight, with the Rockies in town, the Nationals baseball announcer was talking about the Aaron Miles for Juan Uribe trade of 2003. The announcer mentioned that "the trade has really worked out well for the White Sox," because of Uribe's prowess as an offensive threat.
Hmmm. Prowess, eh? Let's see - .230 average, .262 on base percentage, 6 home runs, 38 RBI, 2/6 stolen bases. Prowess indeed.
Aaron Miles, meanwhile, is hitting .293, with a not-so-fabulous 679 OPS. Still better than Uribe, though.
Todd Hollandsworth just struck out Jacob Cruz for the third out of the ninth! What in the world was going on in Cincinnati tonight?
Just as I wrote dogging Juan Uribe, he hit a home run. Figures.
Okay, now the cbs-sportsline website has Hollandsworth list for 0 innings, and then Todd Coffey listed for 1.2 innings and 1 earned run. Todd Coffey plays for the Reds.
Bernie Williams just dropped an easy fly ball to let the tying run score in the 6th, and then Soriano drove in the go ahead run. THAT is how you lose games with a $200 million payroll.
Who am I? - .279 avg, 906 OPS, 11 HR, 33 RBI . . . Jason Giambi. Yeah.
July 17 - Asher - A Place at the Table?
Rafael Palmeiro got his 3,000th hit last night as the Orioles beat the Mariners. Rafie became the 26th player to gather 3000 hits, and looks like he is ready to continue moving up the career hits list. As he moves up the list, and reaches for some other milestones, the conversation will intensify about Rafael Palmeiro's place among the all time greats. He is a Hall of Famer for sure, but Asher notes that the Hall of Fame is the only thing that is certain as he discusses Rafie's Place at the Table.
Rafie's accomplishment has inspired Asher's newest quiz, the 3000 Hits Quiz.
July 16, 2005 - Asher
The Duke's line today 8IP, 6H, 0R, 2BB, 4K
Duke's season total through three games 22IP, 17H, 3ER, 4BB, 21K.
"I don't know darling', whaddaya think should I hate him?"
He's 22, he's good looking, he's a big lefthander from Texas, and he embarrassed the Cubs today.
"Yep, I'm sure of it I hate him."
The Sosa Trade All you nay-sayers who thought the Sammy Sosa trade was one sided were absolutely right. Midway through the season, Hairston has more runs scored, is hitting 42 points higher, has an on-base percentage over 50 points higher, and (brace yourself) has a slugging percentage of .404 vs. .382 for Sammy. Boy oh boy.
Curt Schilling is currently coming out of the bullpen for the Red Sox, allegedly because he is not 100%. It kind of looks to me, after watching today's game, that Schilling is more over weight than not 100%, and that may be his main issue.
July 11 - Keith - All Star Festivities -
Bobby Abreu broke two records at Monday's Home Run Derby: He clubbed 24 homers in the first round and banged 41 total to wow the crowd. People are finally starting to catch on to just how good this six-tool player is.
Things didn't go so well for Jason Bay, who couldn't manage even one dinger during the contest. However, Jason has a lot to be thankful for, as Keith includes him among his top five reasons that the Pirates will reach .500.
July 10, 2005 - Asher - Quick, Who Am I?
I hit my 13th home run of the season tonight. I currently have 13 home runs, 47 RBI, and only 18 runs scored. But that's okay, because in 66 games played, and 173 at-bats, I have an OPS over 950, and I am batting .324. I have hit 30 home runs in a season twice, but no more than 16 since 1999.I have had over 275 at-bats once since 2000, and my average hasn't been over .232 since 2001. I am grateful for my chance with my new team, for whom I have gotten considerable playing time, as I have played for four teams in the last four years, and it was beginning to look like my career had come to a pre-mature end even though I am only 33 years old. I am not Troy O'Leary, but I was once a teammate of Bobby Higginson.
Who am I?
See answer at bottom of July 10, 2005 section
National League Home Run Leaders
Quick, name the top ten NL home run leaders. Let me rattle them off for you: Andruw Jones, Derrek Lee, Adam Dunn, Morgan Ensberg, Carlos Lee, Cliff Floyd, Albert Pujols, Troy Glaus, Aramis Ramirez, Bobby Abreu (tie), Reggie Sanders (tie).
Quite a list, huh? Seem a little foreign? I mean, Pujols and Dunn are not really surprised, but Floyd? The Lees? Sanders? EnsbergWhat has become of the National League? Where are Todd Helton, Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Jim Thome, Jeff Bagwell, and Jim Edmonds?
Remarkably, this will be the first year since 1991 that the NL Top Ten will not feature Sammy Sosa or Barry Bonds. That year, Bonds finished 11th.
Does this represent a changing of the guard? Perhaps. We will have to wait until next year to see what sticks. Nevertheless, it is interesting. Sanders and Floyd are veterans, but their best days seemed behind them. And obviously Dunn and Pujols have been there before, and Carlos Lee and Troy Glaus are first time NLers, but Ensberg?Just something interesting of note.
Braves and Brewers
Two interesting things from tonight's Brewers Braves game. First, the Brewers outfielders twice robbed Andy Marte of hits one a home run caught by Brady Clark who reached over fence to take it away, and one a sure extra-base hit that Carlos Lee banged into the wall to catch. Not only is this a demonstration of how things can go wrong when you are slumpin' Marte went 0-5 and his average is now .159 but it is also a demonstration of how the cumulative effects of team defense can win games. The Brewers won 8-4 over the Braves with Chris Capuano taking his fifth straight victory.
The second interesting thing that happened was that the Braves used seven different pitchers. This is a very un-Mazzone move, but with this being the last game before the break, the Braves can afford it. Let's just hope this isn't indicative of some larger issue.
Answer to Who Am I? none other than Tony Tony the Tiger Clark!
July 9 - Keith - Moneyball Blues
The Dodgers are 14-24 since losing Milton Bradley on the 29th of May. Keith therefore concludes that Bradley's leadership, poise, and clubhouse presence have been grossly misevaluated the past few years. Clearly, the Dodgers have no team chemistry without him.
Scott, of course, time-traveled to a Paul Depodesta news conference set in October of 2005 a few months back, and Paul has his own theories as to why the Dodgers have struggled:
``Hand injuries are freak things. Drew already broke his right hand once before (in 2001). I dont think there was any way of predicting the likelihood of an injury like that. But when he went down in June, so did we.''
And, of course, Asher continues the Beane Watch.
July 8, 2005 - Asher
Ken Griffey, Jr.
Ken hit his 17th home run of the year tonight. He currently has 311 at-bats, which is the most he has had since 2001, when he had 364. He is hitting .289, and his OPS is over .850, while his run total is tied with what he had last year. Perhaps most impressive is Ken's 21 doubles, which is one less than he had in all of 2000, when he played in 145 games.
Ken is of course always one trip around the bases away from missing the rest of the year, but the kid is playing well, and as someone who still remembers the great excitement he had opening a Topps Wax Pack to finds a Ken Griffey, Jr. All Star Rookie card in 1990, I am happy to see him healthy and playing well.
Oh by the way, KGJ also got his 1500th RBI tonight. He is currently 43rd all time, and about to pass Mickey Mantle.
Nate Robertson threw one pitch tonight, straight at Carl Crawford, and got tossed from the game. Apparently, Scott Kazmir hit Placido Polanco with the first pitch of the game (which I really hope the announcers referred to as Placido getting Polancked), and so home plate umpire Tim McClelland immediately tossed Robertson after his first pitch "sailed several feet" behind Crawford.
I hope everyone at the ballpark realized they were seeing history. This is like Tony Dorsett's 99 yard touchdown run it is not possible for a starting pitcher to have a shorter outing than Robertson's last night. Whereas a reliever can come into a game with two outs and then promptly pick off a base runner to end an inning without throwing a pitch, a starter has to throw the first pitch of the game in order for the game to start.
There will never be a shorter outing than Nate Robertson's last night.
Big Frank currently has 18 hits, and 11 of them are home runs. His average coming into tonight was only .250, but his slugging percentage was .736, and he has an even 1100 OPS. Imagine how deadly the White Sox will be if Big Frank gets back to full speed.
The Houston (f-ing) Astros
The Astros won again tonight, pushing their record to one game under 500. This is the same team that finished the month of May at 19-32. However, the team has gone 23-11 since, and how they have done it is no mystery. Morgan "last regular player in the majors to hit a home runs last season" Ensberg has been absolutely on fire, hitting 13 home runs since June 1, and raising his OPS almost 100 points during that period. Jason Lane has started to come around, and losing Jeff Bagwell for the season has turned out to be a blessing in disguise, as the Astros have played Lance Berkman at first since he returned from injury, which allowed a then-struggling Willy Tavares the consistent playing time to find his stroke, which he has to the tune of a .296 average.
The true story, though, is probably the pitching, which has been lights out. Pettitte is back from injury and pitching competently, and Roy Oswalt and Roger Clemens have been fantastic. Clemens would have 13 wins by now if his team every supported him with some runs.
The good news is that the Astros are now in second place, having leapt over the Cubs. The bad news is that for the second straight season, it would appear as though the Cards will have the division locked up by the All-Star break, and there are plenty of wild-card candidates in the NL East.
Its still pretty impressive how well the Astros have rebounded for the second straight year now.
The Atlanta Braves
With the Marlins, Mets, and Phillies falling somewhat by the wayside, the Nats really only face one competitor in the NL East. Unfortunately for the Nats, that competitor is the most seasoned division winning machine in sports history the Atlanta Braves.
As recently as June, the Braves were in fourth place in a tightly packed division. On June 15th, the Braves were 33-32, but they have gone 17-5 since then.
How have they done it? Unlike the Astros, the Braves have not been so obvious. For one thing, they have gotten a remarkable amount of production out of platoon guys like Julio Franco and Ryan Langerhans. They have also managed to survive the youth movement they have had to endure, with first year guys like Pete Orr, Kelly Johnson, and Adam Marte. The have also managed to endure the collapse of Raul Mondesi, the ineffectiveness of Brian Jordan, and the injury to Chipper Jones.
In short, these Braves are about John Smoltz, Bobby Cox, Leo Mazzone, and Andruw Jones coming through and leading a bunch of youngsters to success. About time, Andruw.
Minnesota Twins Pitchers
- Brad Radke has only walked ten batters all year, but has managed to hit five batters.
- Carlos Silva has only walked five batters all year, but still have a huge WHIP because he is giving up a .306 opponents batting average.
- Johann Santana has given up 11 fewer earned runs before the All Star break than he did all of last season, though he has yet to hit a batter and is walking fewer batters per nine innings than he did last season.
- Joe Mays is averaging one strikeout every three innings, and has a strikeout to walk ratio of less than 1.5, but has the second best ERA on the staff and has lower his ERA from last season by 2.50 points.
- Jesse Crain leads the team in wins with 8, despite the fact that he is a reliever that has only pitched 39.2 innings. He K/BB ratio is a meager 1.5 to 1.
The Texas Rangers Offense
The Rangers already have seven players with double digit home runs. I'll give you seven guesses to figure out which of those players leads the team in slugging percentage, and you won't even get it. The team leader in slugging by .003 over Mark Teixeira is none other than Dave Dellucci with a .549.
Interesting note there are currently two guys in the majors who were born in the Dominican Republic in 1982 with the first name "Robinson," those being Robinson Cano and Robinson Tejeda. Think there is something behind this trend? Like, maybe Jackie Robinson was incredibly popular in 1982 in the DR?
Interestingly, a baseballreference.com search for the name Robinson revealed only two other players with the first name Robinson Robinson Cancel from Puerto Rico and Robinson Checo Perez from the Domincan Republic in baseball history.
The San Francisco Giants
The San Francisco Giants are now 36-49 despite all of the nearly hilarious Spring Training "Barry who?" optimism. Pedro "the secret weapon" Feliz,, who had me mildly worried when he got off to a rather quick start, hit his 11th home run last night, which was literally the first time I had thought of him since May. Perhaps that is because the home run was only his third since May.
On May 10th, Pedro was off to a startlingly good start - .325 AVG, .366 OBP, .520 SLG (good for him that is). Through the end of May, he experienced a bit of a free fall, and even though he has kind of evened out, his current .276, .315, .438 is much more along the lines of we would have expected.
Actually, it is along the lines of what Scott expected of Cristian Guzman. But I digress.
Speaking of the San Francisco Giants, I am thinking of creating a companion to the Dave Kingman award called the Alex Sanchez award, given to the player who is of the least value to his team despite his remarkably high average. Sanchez is currently hitting .331, but has somehow managed to be waived twice this season. This guy must be a real asshole, because there are lots of teams that would love a .331 hitter.
Anyway, one of the criteria for the award with definitely be difference between on base percentage and batting average. Remember Dante Bichette 1995, with a .340 average but .364 OBP? After last night, Sanchez's OBP is .359, or 28 points higher than his average.
You know what is easy to loose site of given San Fran's mediocre play? Mike Matheny (yes, Mike Matheny). He is having a fantastic year! He hit is 21st double yesterday, which is one away from his career high. That's the type of thing that makes you think you are seeing a typo. He also has 9 home runs, which IS a career high, and is 8 RBIs away from his career high. AND he is currently slugging .454, which is 92 points higher than he has EVER slugged in his career. He has only played 69 games this season, and has played well over a hundred games eight times in his career.
Frankly, it makes no sense.
Congratulations Are In Order . . .
- Craig Biggio collected HBP number 268. Does this come with an asterisk since Biggio wears protective armor and Don Baylor, the previous record holder, did not? Only if Bud Selig ghost wrote Don Baylor's memoirs.
- Jamie Moyer, at the age of 42, got his 200th victory
- Rafael Palmeiro moved past Reggie Jackson on the career HR list, and is 5 hits away from 3,000.
July 7 - Asher and Keith - GAME OFF!!
The pitching staff healthy for the first time since April, and the offense having played well enough to keep the Cubs over .500 and in second place through all the injuries, the Cubs looked primed to make a run in the second half.
But, these are in fact the Cubs, and having Prior Wood Zambrano and Maddux all healthy at once basically signaled the offense to shut down. Despite breaking out for four whole runs tonight against the Braves, the Cubs have only managed to score 5 runs all week, and are now riding an eight game losing streak, are under .500, and are in third place behind the re-surgent Houston Astros.
Its a downright disaster. Or,
Business as usual for the Chicago Cubs.
In an effort to revitalize the offense, the Cubs sent down Corey 'Tools' Patterson and Jason 'No one wants your .472 SLG' Dubois in favor of Matt Murton and Adam Greenberg. Murton and Greenberg join Todd Hollandsworth and and Jerry Hairston Jr. in a four-way platoon for the two non-Burnitz outfield slots.
Keith has the inside scoop on Adam Greenberg.
Corey "Tools" Patterson isn't the only nickname the Baseball Evolution staff has come up with. Check out some other player nicknames we have dubbed over the years.
June 30 - Asher - GAME ON!!
The Cubs starting pitcher goes six innings, giving up two hits and one earned run, while striking out nine and walking two. But the Cubs offense forgets to show up, giving him only two runs of support, and the bullpen forgets to show up, immediately losing the lead after the starting pitcher leaves the game. Ultimately, the bullpen bends but does not break, the Cubs rally for the win in the bottom of the ninth, depriving the starting pitcher of a well earned victory.
You know what that means, right? You guessed it! Kerry Wood is back, baby! And boy did he look strong. Yeah, sure, he threw 91 pitches in six innings, but he set a season high for strikeouts and tied his season low for walks and earned runs in his first game in almost two months.
And Prior pitched six innings of one-hit ball on Sunday!
And Zambrano pitched eight innings of three-hit ball yesterday!
Things are definitely looking up for the Northsiders!
June 29 - Asher -
Well well well. Dr. Drese made his second strong start for the Nats, giving up one run in eight innings for his second win since being picked up off of waivers. We'll have to see if Frank Robinson can somehow make sure it continues to be Dr. Drese that takes the mound, or whether Mr. Hyde is going to come out and give up five runs in three innings again.
When I said that the Orioles needed Brian Roberts to break out of his slump and start producing again if they were going to get back on the winning track, I am not sure I meant it this literally. The Orioles broke their 6 game losing streak last night on a Brian Roberts home run in the bottom of the tenth. Way to come through, BRob!
Here is something that my brother Eric pointed out to me. Every team in the NL East has a winning record right now, with the last place Mets at an even .500. However, every team in the division has a losing record on the road. Therefore, Eric points out, the team that wins this incredibly tight division will probably be the team that plays the most games at home coming down the stretch.
Read more about the Orioles and Nationals season in The D.C. Daily Diary.
June 23 - Keith -
This weekend, the Cubs and Sox play their final series of the year... until the World Series, that is. Seriously though, it is rare for both Chicago teams to both be competative (or in the Sox case, dominant) this late in the season. How do the fans react? Are there inherent differences between Cub fans and Sox fans? How does each fan base view the other? Keith shares his opinions on these issues, focusing on Sox fans looking north.
6/19/05 - Keith - Streaky Teams:
Cleveland has won 11 of their last 12 games, but that's not as impressive when you consider that they got to play Colorado at the Jake during that stretch. The Rockies are just 5-27 on the road, and just 3-23 on the road when Jason Jennings doesn't start.
The Pirates have gone 27-24 since beginning the year at 4-11. Oliver Perez rediscovering an effective release point and Lloyd McClendon benching inneffective hitters made this run possible.
After beginning the season at 12-2, the Dodgers have only managed a 21-32 record. Injuries to Milton Bradley and Odalis Perez are culprits of the collapse.
So which relievers are deserving of the Hall? Keith answers that while providing a list of better relievers than Fingers.
Meanwhile, Asher's obsession with Eric Milton, Brian Roberts, and Adam Dunn continues as he tries to keep up with The Pace.
Keith would like to add Kevin Mass' name to Asher's list of players with bad HR/RBI ratios; in his rookie season, he smashed 21 homers but drove in just 41 for a 1.95 ratio.
6/10/05 - Keith - The Major League Triple Crown Derek Lee's reign as the Major League Triple Crown leader is over, as Alex Rodriguez has surpassed him in homers (A-Rod is the first player ever to hit 400 homers before age 30) and Carlos Lee has topped him in RBIs (Ever since I wrote that the Sox got the best of the Carlos Lee trade on 5/21, 'El Caballo' has hit 7 HRs, driven in 22, and raised his average by 43 points). The ML Triple Crown is more than twice as rare as simply doing it in one league, as it has only happened five times in history:
Ty Cobb 1909: .377/9/107
Rogers Hornsby 1925: .403/39/143
Lou Gehrig 1934: .363/49/165
Ted Williams 1942: .356/36/137
Mickey Mantle 1956: .353/52/130
Asher has noticed another rarity in the royal headgear department. Don his Double Crown.
6/9/05 - News and notes from the 2005 Amateur Draft:
65% of the players were drafted out of college. While this figure represents the first decrease in percentage of college players drafted since 1995, 70% of the first 560 players drafted were collegiate.
Only three high school pitchers were drafted in the first round, and two of them were drafted by the Marlins!
Three of the top five picks were third basemen.
The Astros ignored the fact that Tulane players have not enjoyed ML success, and drafted two members of the Green Wave, including the athletic Brian Bogusevic in the 1st round.
Former Major Leaguer kin who were drafted include Jesse Schoendienst (great nephew, Cardinals), Matt Wallach (son, Yankees), Jeremy Shelby (son, Padres), AJ Van Slyke (son, Cardinals), Toby Gardenhire (son, Twins), Andrew Hargrove (son, Mariners), and Kody Clemens (son, Astros). Of course, the Rocket isn't a former Major Leaguer yet.
6/2/05 - Keith - OUTFIELD SNIPERS
The Red Sox only split their 4-game series against Baltimore, despite gunning down 5 Orioles from the outfield. On Monday alone, the Bosox had three outfield assists, including one at home plate in each of the first two innings. Man-Ram's 2 in that game gives him six on the season, tying him for the Major League lead with Cliff Floyd and Brad Hawpe.
However, whereas Ramirez and Floyd have each logged over 385 outfield innings, Colorado's Hawpe has only needed 276 to eliminate six runners from the basepaths. Consider that basrunners tend to be conservative in Coors Field, and one must conclude that Hawpe has the most effective young arm in the game.
6/1/05 - Keith -
Frank Thomas and Juan Gonzalez both injured themselves in their first game back from the DL... on consecutive days! Gonzalez is in worse shape, however, as he is headed right back to the DL. Cleveland had to waive outfield prospect Ryan Ludwick to make room for Juan Gone, so something was ventured and nothing was gained.
See News and Notes from April and May of 2005.
See News and Notes from the first three months of 2005.
See News and Notes from 2004.
See News and Notes from 2003.
Over on The Sports Farm, Scott and Keith got into a debate about relievers and the Hall of Fame.