Ranking Piazza Among the All-Time Greats - Part 1

by Keith Glab, BaseballEvolution.com
May 22, 2008

Mike Piazza has formally announced his retirement from Major League Baseball.  That makes now the perfect time to evaluate his rank among the all-time great catchers.  Everyone knows that he is the best-hitting catcher of all time.  Everyone also knows that he ranks among the worst all time in throwing out base runners, while he is generally considered competent in the other aspects of catcher defense. 

The Piazza debate therefore features the extremely difficult issue of how to value offense versus defense.  How do we reconcile this dichotomy?  To begin, let's look at the top 25 players in Adjusted Batting Runs who have played at least 500 games at catcher (courtesy of Baseball-Reference.com).  

Catcher Batting Runs Games Caught % Games at Catcher
Mike Piazza 422 1629 85.2
Joe Torre 304 903 40.9
Brian Downing 284 675 28.8
Johnny Bench 267 1742 80.7
Gene Tenace 267 892 57.4
Mickey Cochrane 256 1451 98.0
Bill Dickey 248 1708 95.5
Gabby Hartnett 243 1793 90.1
Yogi Berra 239 1699 80.1
Ted Simmons 215 1771 72.1
Jorge Posada 200 1369 94.4
Ernie Lombardi 193 1544 83.3
Carlton Fisk 192 2226 89.1
Roger Bresnahan 188 974 67.4
Buck Ewing 181 636 48.3
Mickey Tettleton 170 872 58.7
Wally Schang 166 1435 77.9
Gary Carter 162 2056 89.5
Roy Campanella 142 1183 97.4
Darrell Porter 124 1506 84.5
Mike Stanley 123 751 51.2
Thurman Munson 114 1278 89.8
Smokey Burgess 111 1139 67.4
Ivan Rodriguez 108 2098 95.8
Bill Freehan 99 1581 89.1

We see that Piazza has over 150 more batting runs than the next catcher who has a comparable number of games played at the position and over four times as many as the 25th catcher on this list.  Other than Honus Wagner, there is no player as far ahead of his positional peers offensively as Mike Piazza is.  Not Babe Ruth, not Ty Cobb, not Rogers Hornsby.  Okay, maybe Ruth as a pitcher, but he only played 163 games there.

Scott and I, at least, give Piazza considerable credit for his offensive feats.  Here is where the best catchers of all time ranked in the summer of 2006 according to the Baseball Evolution staff:

Asher Keith Scott Tony Richard
33 Yogi Berra 33 Bill Dickey 37 Mike Piazza 40 Yogi Berra 28 Yogi Berra
40 Bill Dickey 35 Mike Piazza 39 Yogi Berra 43 Bill Dickey 29 Johnny Bench
45 Johnny Bench 44 Johnny Bench 42 Bill Dickey 46 Johnny Bench 35 Roy Campanella
49 Mike Piazza 46 Mickey Cochrane 52 Johnny Bench 50 Mike Piazza 44 Mike Piazza
58 Mickey Cochrane 47 Gabby Hartnett 62 Gabby Hartnett 56 Mickey Cochrane 60 Mickey Cochrane
94 Gabby Hartnett 49 Yogi Berra 66 Mickey Cochrane 81 Gabby Hartnett 63 Bill Dickey
95 Roy Campanella 83 Roger Bresnahan 98 Carlton Fisk 98 Carlton Fisk 74 Ivan Rodriguez
  99 Carlton Fisk     80 Carlton Fisk
        93 Gabby Hartnett
        97 Gary Carter

Whereas Asher, Tony, and Richard unanimously placed Piazza as the fourth best catcher of all time behind catchers who were great both at the plate and behind it, Scott and I placed Piazza significantly higher.

I don't want to speak for the other staff members, but I don't think Piazza did much in the last season-and-a-half of his career to change our opinion of him.  Piazza posted a fairly impressive .830 OPS in the second half of 2006, playing half his games at Petco Park.  He then posted a fairly disappointing .727 OPS as a designated hitter in an injury-plagued 2007 campaign with the A's.  (Side note: Piazza can now add his name to the Top 10 Players to End their Careers with the A's list, but he cannot necessarily replace Frank Thomas on it, as we may have thought at the beginning of the season).

What may have changed is that Baseball-Reference.com now has defensive stolen base and caught stealing data for catchers going back to 1956.  Regrettably, this data does not help us compare Piazza to Dickey, Hartnett, and Cochrane, nor does it allow us to compare Ray Schalk to Ivan Rodriguez on defense.  It can't even fully analyze Yogi Berra, for whom no data exists prior to his 31st birthday.  What it can do is put one Johnny Bench on an even analytical keel with Mike Piazza, and this is useful, since most of us have Bench ranked neatly in between Dickey and Cochrane.  Find out where Piazza ranks with respect to Bench, and it becomes easier to determine where he ranks with respect to the other catchers on our list.     

Continue to Part 2




Disagree with something? Got something to add? Wanna bring up something totally new? Keith resides in Chicago, Illinois and can be reached at keith@baseballevolution.com or found at the Baseball Evolution Forum