by Keith Glab, BaseballEvolution.com
May 22, 2008
Mike Piazza has formally announced his retirement from Major League Baseball.
That makes now the perfect time to evaluate his rank among the all-time great
catchers. Everyone knows that he is the best-hitting catcher of all time.
Everyone also knows that he ranks among the worst all time in throwing out base
runners, while he is generally considered competent in the other aspects of
catcher defense.
The Piazza debate therefore features the extremely difficult issue of how to
value offense versus defense. How do we reconcile this dichotomy? To
begin, let's look at the top 25 players in Adjusted Batting Runs who have played
at least 500 games at catcher (courtesy of Baseball-Reference.com).
| Catcher |
Batting Runs |
Games Caught |
% Games at Catcher |
| Mike Piazza |
422 |
1629 |
85.2 |
| Joe Torre |
304 |
903 |
40.9 |
| Brian Downing |
284 |
675 |
28.8 |
| Johnny Bench |
267 |
1742 |
80.7 |
| Gene Tenace |
267 |
892 |
57.4 |
| Mickey Cochrane |
256 |
1451 |
98.0 |
| Bill Dickey |
248 |
1708 |
95.5 |
| Gabby Hartnett |
243 |
1793 |
90.1 |
| Yogi Berra |
239 |
1699 |
80.1 |
| Ted Simmons |
215 |
1771 |
72.1 |
| Jorge Posada |
200 |
1369 |
94.4 |
| Ernie Lombardi |
193 |
1544 |
83.3 |
| Carlton Fisk |
192 |
2226 |
89.1 |
| Roger Bresnahan |
188 |
974 |
67.4 |
| Buck Ewing |
181 |
636 |
48.3 |
| Mickey Tettleton |
170 |
872 |
58.7 |
| Wally Schang |
166 |
1435 |
77.9 |
| Gary Carter |
162 |
2056 |
89.5 |
| Roy Campanella |
142 |
1183 |
97.4 |
| Darrell Porter |
124 |
1506 |
84.5 |
| Mike Stanley |
123 |
751 |
51.2 |
| Thurman Munson |
114 |
1278 |
89.8 |
| Smokey Burgess |
111 |
1139 |
67.4 |
| Ivan Rodriguez |
108 |
2098 |
95.8 |
| Bill Freehan |
99 |
1581 |
89.1 |
We see that Piazza has over 150 more batting runs than the next catcher who
has a comparable number of games played at the position and over four times as
many as the 25th catcher on this list. Other than Honus Wagner, there is
no player as far ahead of his positional peers offensively as Mike Piazza is.
Not Babe Ruth, not Ty Cobb, not Rogers Hornsby. Okay, maybe Ruth as a
pitcher, but he only played 163 games there.
Scott and I, at least, give Piazza considerable credit for his offensive
feats. Here is where the best catchers of all time ranked in the summer of
2006 according to the Baseball Evolution staff:
| Asher |
Keith |
Scott |
Tony |
Richard |
| 33 Yogi Berra |
33 Bill Dickey |
37 Mike Piazza |
40 Yogi Berra |
28 Yogi Berra |
| 40 Bill Dickey |
35 Mike Piazza |
39 Yogi Berra |
43 Bill Dickey |
29 Johnny Bench |
| 45 Johnny Bench |
44 Johnny Bench |
42 Bill Dickey |
46 Johnny Bench |
35 Roy Campanella |
| 49 Mike Piazza |
46 Mickey Cochrane |
52 Johnny Bench |
50 Mike Piazza |
44 Mike Piazza |
| 58 Mickey Cochrane |
47 Gabby Hartnett |
62 Gabby Hartnett |
56 Mickey Cochrane |
60 Mickey Cochrane |
| 94 Gabby Hartnett |
49 Yogi Berra |
66 Mickey Cochrane |
81 Gabby Hartnett |
63 Bill Dickey |
| 95 Roy Campanella |
83 Roger Bresnahan |
98 Carlton Fisk |
98 Carlton Fisk |
74 Ivan Rodriguez |
| |
99 Carlton Fisk |
|
|
80 Carlton Fisk |
| |
|
|
|
93 Gabby Hartnett |
| |
|
|
|
97 Gary Carter |
Whereas Asher, Tony, and Richard unanimously placed Piazza as the fourth best
catcher of all time behind catchers who were great both at the plate and behind
it, Scott and I placed Piazza significantly higher.
I don't want to speak for the other staff members, but I don't think Piazza
did much in the last season-and-a-half of his career to change our opinion of
him. Piazza posted a fairly impressive .830 OPS in the second half of
2006, playing half his games at Petco Park. He then posted a fairly
disappointing .727 OPS as a designated hitter in an injury-plagued 2007 campaign
with the A's. (Side note: Piazza can now add his name to the
Top 10 Players to End their Careers with the
A's list, but he cannot necessarily replace Frank Thomas on it, as we
may have thought at the beginning of the season).
What may have changed is that Baseball-Reference.com now has defensive stolen
base and caught stealing data for catchers going back to 1956.
Regrettably, this data does not help us compare Piazza to Dickey, Hartnett, and
Cochrane, nor does it allow us to compare Ray Schalk to Ivan Rodriguez on
defense. It can't even fully analyze Yogi Berra, for whom no data exists
prior to his 31st birthday. What it can do is put one Johnny Bench on an
even analytical keel with Mike Piazza, and this is useful, since most of us have
Bench ranked neatly in between Dickey and Cochrane. Find out where Piazza
ranks with respect to Bench, and it becomes easier to determine where he ranks
with respect to the other catchers on our list.
Continue to Part 2
Disagree with something? Got something to add? Wanna bring up something totally new? Keith resides in Chicago, Illinois and can be reached at keith@baseballevolution.com or found at the Baseball Evolution Forum